Wednesday, February 17, 2021

Do Charedim Live Off The State - Really Really?

A number of people sent me a recent article in Globes, about how the claim that "Charedim live of the state" is not actually true, if you look at the statistics. Since the author of the article is a charedi apologist from Kiryat Sefer, I was instantly suspicious. I asked a friend of mine, who is part of the charedi community, works in finance, and thus has a much better understanding of these topics than I do, to write a response. Since he is part of the charedi community, he has chosen to remain anonymous. Here is the response:

Haredi author Shulamit Rosen recently published an article in Globes with the headline "Do Israel’s haredim really live off the state?". The article purports to assess how accurate the “accusation against haredim of economic parasitism” is.

“Economic parasitism” is an inflammatory term, and one that is unlikely to be helpful in considering the economic contribution made by Israel’s haredi community. This post will instead seek to provide context to the numbers Rosen cites in making her case that the truth is “so distant from the media’s depiction and the common financial perception of haredim”. As will become apparent, her article obfuscates more than it illuminates.

Rosen seeks to parry the accusation that “haredim don’t pay taxes”, by citing the fact that the pre-Covid 19 haredi employment rate for 25-64 year olds was 64.5%, only 14% below the 78.5% for Israeli citizens on the whole. Yet this is misleading in several ways. To begin with, employment rates do not actually answer the question of how much tax haredim pay. And if we compare haredi employment rates to the 86% employment rate for non-haredi Jewish Israelis (rather than the entire Israeli population, which includes both haredim and Arabs), then the disparity is actually considerably larger: 21.5%.

As far as taxes are concerned, we can do little better than cite the Israel Democracy Institute’s "Haredi Society in Israel, Yearly Report (2020)", the very report Ms. Rosen relies on to support her contentions. This report shows that, in 2018, the average haredi household paid 1,524 NIS per month in income tax, national insurance and health insurance, which is only 34% of the 4,461 NIS paid by the average non-haredi Jewish household. This disparity reflects the fact that haredi households have a much lower income than their non-haredi counterparts: in 2018, the average haredi household brought in 9,766 NIS a month from work, which is only 54% of the 18,191 NIS the average non-haredi Jewish household earned per month. Nor do haredi households spend more on (taxed) goods and services. Despite its much larger average size, the average haredi household spends 16% less on these than its average non-haredi counterpart.

As for the 21.5% gap in employment rates between haredim and non-haredi Jews - while 21.5% is itself no small number, it also conceals the fact that when we consider men alone (instead of averaging the employment rate of both genders), their employment rate is only 52.5%, compared to 88% of their non-haredi Jewish counterparts. And haredi men in 2018 in work earned only 56% of what their non-haredi Jewish male counterparts did: that was partially due to a lower number of hours worked (84% of the hours worked by non-haredi men), but largely due to lower wages (67% of those of non-haredim), which itself is because they are generally working in non-professional careers. It is worth noting that 27% of the haredi males who are employed work in education, which by and large means that they are part of the haredi cheder and yeshiva complex. That compares with a mere 4% of non-haredi males who work in the education sector.

While the employment rate of haredi women is just 7% below that of non-haredi Jewish women (76.5% vs 83.5%), they only earn 66% on average of what non-haredi women earn, largely due to the fact that many of them are employed part-time. On average, haredi women who are employed work 77% of the hours of non-haredi women. Funnily enough, Rosen does note that “only 57% of employed haredi women actually work full time”. But this is only in the context of her attempt to demonstrate that haredi women do not disproportionately benefit from discounted child day care.

Rosen proceeds to ask “exactly how much financial assistance do haredim receive from the government?” But instead of answering this question, she merely cites some problematic statistics regarding government subsidies for the haredi and non-haredi education systems. As for how much haredi families receive from the state in welfare and other related payments, here too Rosen’s favored Israel Democracy Institute report comes in handy. The report notes that the average haredi family received 3,577 NIS per month in welfare and support payments, 66% more than the 2,157 NIS received by the average non-haredi Jewish family.

When it comes to the relative state subsidies for the haredi and non-haredi education systems, Rosen makes much of the limited funding provided to yeshiva students in comparison to university students. While there is certainly room to debate the extent to which a Jewish country should fund yeshiva study, it is perfectly reasonable that, from an economic perspective, the government should seek to subsidize university studies (which, incidentally, are open to haredim too) to a greater extent than yeshiva learning, since university studies train people to be able to contribute more to the economy.

Rosen claims that “mainstream elementary schools in Israel receive NIS 1,262 per student per month from the ministry. And haredi elementary schools? NIS 404 per student”. Yet, according to Israeli official statistics (see the table on page 15 of this report from Israel’s State Comptroller), “recognized” haredi elementary schools receive an average of 1,008 NIS per student per month, 89% of the 1,133 NIS received by non-haredi schools. Of course, many haredi boys in particular study in schools that receive reduced government funding due to their refusal to teach the national curriculum, and this may explain some of the disparity between Rosen’s numbers and those presented here. But it should also not be overlooked that, in other countries, even ones that provide state funding to religious schools, those schools that opt out of teaching the national curriculum do not receive funding from the government. Moreover, given that Haredi families tend to have a far larger number of children than non-Haredi families, this favors the Haredim when considered in terms of educational funding received per household and certainly per taxpayer.

Rosen goes on to write that “the government finances NIS 2,625 of a standard high school student’s education per month, in contrast to NIS 655 for haredi high school students”. Once again, Israeli Education Ministry statistics (as cited in The Marker article) tell a different story. In 2018, haredi high schools received 1,975 NIS per student per month, versus 2,612 NIS for non-haredi high schools. Haredi boys tend to study in yeshivos ketanos rather than high schools, and this presumably accounts for some of the disparity between the Israeli Education Ministry statistics and Rosen’s numbers, though the gap still appears suspiciously large.

In conclusion, while there is no conclusive cut-off point at which it can be said that a particular demographic “lives off the state”, it is abundantly clear that the haredi community’s relative contribution to Israel’s economy falls significantly behind that of its non-haredi Jewish counterpart. And when all is said and done, the average Haredi household does receive considerably more funding from the state than it pays in taxes.

Of course, much of this is due to the fact that Haredim are, in relative terms, poor in comparison to the non-haredi Jewish population. And poverty itself is no crime. But the simple fact is that maintaining a developed economy would be impossible if the rest of Israel adopted the educational and employment patterns that haredim choose. It is understandable that the communities that opt in to the elements which make Israel’s developed country status possible object to the rapidly growing segment of the population that does not.

To quote R. David Brofsky of Yeshivat Har Etzion: “...for those who actually experience the consequences - for those whose cities or towns have very little money to invest in parks, schools, and infrastructure because a significant percentage of their population, in principle, lives below the tax bracket, for those whose taxes are higher because other communities choose not to participate in the tax burden, for those whose children spend years in the army defending a community which in principle doesn’t bear the burden of participating in the country’s defense - these are actually real issues. All societies are made up of those who are wealthy, those who are in the middle-class range, and those below. And by definition, societies are meant to provide for all, and individuals certainly can choose to enter high or low paying fields. I am referring to the ideology of an entire community - which denies its children the education necessary to enter the workforce in a significant manner… I believe, as a community, there should be an evaluation of whether those decisions are considerate of the broader population.” 

 

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64 comments:

  1. Are these numbers adjusted for family size? If the average Chareidi family is 66% bigger, it will be self-explanatory why they recieve 66% more than the non-Chareidi family.

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  2. The never ending struggle for a higher standard of living is a Western phenomenon said to cause numerous sociological, psychological and environmental ills. If chareidim opt not to join the rat race, all power to them.

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    1. If the decision to not join the rat race requires other responsible, conscientious adults to foster them like children, then no "power to them." Why is this so hard to understand?

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    2. Let's not act like that's what economic progress is about. Education, healthcare, defense, housing, and food aren't things we can just chose not to get. Choosing to be poor is a privilege of people living in a rich country with a welfare state. If we all made that choice, Israel would be a poor country with no social security net, and anyone not rich, by choice or not, would face the consequences.

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    3. Avraham, you are on the nose. Hareidim in Israel don't want or care about a developed economy. This is what people don't understand. They would be fine living in poverty in an undeveloped economy. They would prefer 19th century European shtetl living, with all the hardships and infant mortality, rather than joining secular society. So, enough with this nonsense.

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    4. Utterly bizarre statement. You seem to be confusing 'higher standards of living' with 'pursuit of wealth'.The "sociological, psychological and environmental ills" you allude to are the symptoms of societies that LACK such standards - and by all accounts Haredi society is not immune to these.

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    5. "They would be fine living in poverty in an undeveloped economy"

      I don't know how many Haredim in Israel you know, but that's a load of nonsense. And no one is asking them to join secular society.

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    6. Do you really think haredim enjoy living in poverty? why should haredi Jews accept this fate?

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    7. I'm just making the observation that RS and everybody else here is making, that kharedim prefer to live in poverty. Nobody is forcing them to live that way, if they wanted they could join the IDF and have normal careers, easy peasy.

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  3. Well of course there is a problem. But there is more than one problem.

    There's absolutely a cartel of protektzia in Israel. The 100 rich families splashed all over the Panama Papers own all the monopoly business (Bezeq, Zim etc.) Highly trained Olim have trouble getting a job. Israel is such a difficult place to outsiders because it suits those with power to keep the monopoly going.

    https://openaccess.city.ac.uk/id/eprint/14708/

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    1. Olim and highly educated secular Jews have some options. Remote (foreign) employment and yerida are increasing....those who have no such options remain mired. I work with many Israelis in the tech sector who operate in this manner.

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    2. Absolutely. My point is this: Charedi poverty is not wholly a function of Charedi indolence. There are structural problems with social mobility and state capture (corruption) which affect everyone.

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    3. The Hat, I am one of these olim, came in 1990, no language, no money, no protekzia, no connections of any kind! But as we Russian Jews always do - we perceiver! I learned Ivrit, went to army, went to university, became engineer, got jobs in most prestigious places IAI, Motorola without any protection or connections. Over 30 year since aliya I have increased my income by more than 20 folds! Built family, got kids, bought house! And so too all my friends who became teachers, managers, lawyers, officers in army, CEOs of companies and more. So your claims have no merit and no base in reality.
      Everything is possible, Israel is a blessing to Jews.

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    4. The irony is that with a shift to parnassah and the obvious entrepreneurial talents of many Haredim they could be a massive social force.

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  4. There is not really a debate here, and both the original article and this response cherry-pick statistics out of context. But to comment on just one point, this response seems to regard having lower-paying jobs, and therefore paying lower-income taxes, as some sort of complaint against the chareidi society. I do not know by what system of beliefs society can demand/expect that people spend their lives pursuing higher-paying jobs (with the attendant drawbacks in terms of quality of life) in order to have the merit of paying higher income taxes. If a family decides that it is more important for them to have a parent home at 4 p.m. to greet their children, rather than working longer hours to earn more money, that should not be criticized.

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    1. the criticism is on the whole: the plain fact that the so-called 'Hareidi" society is POOR, is a Chilul Hashem. On the whole, Jews who supposedly follow Hashem's instructions are meant to be blessed - both spiritually, AND materially. The so-called "hareidim" are doing a terrible disservice to Hashem and Torah!

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    2. It should not be criticized if - and ONLY if - that decision allows the families who make it to remain self-sufficient. If you're paying disproportionally less in health tax, for example, but benefiting disproportionally from health services because of your large family, your decision to earn less in order to have more "family time" doesn't just impact you.

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    3. Freedom to make choices doesn't mean protection from criticism.

      Do you think that deliberately choosing to take more from society than you give to it is a morally neutral choice?

      Judging by how offended haredim react when people suggest that's the case, not even they think it's a defendable position. You'll find everything, from dubious use of statistics to arguing that Torah study does provide immense value to society, but no one thinks that not contributing BY CHOICE and only taking benefits is moral.


      To speak against an entire population choosing to live in poverty, and often forcing their children to follow, isn't the same as saying everyone is morally obligated to work high paying jobs and stop seeing their kids. This is a strawman fallacy.

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  5. Perhaps instead of blaming haredim for taking too large a portion of the free buffet, we should stop incentivizing all sectors from financial dependence on government by eliminating socialistic redistributive economic policies entirely? Then each sector can decide on the correct balance between values and economics, and a healthy homeostasis can be reached, and the collective burden will be much lighter.

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    1. Israeli society would implode within a generation if this scenario (one which does not exist anywhere by the way) - starting with the IDF. The Haredi community would be pauperized and eviscerated.

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    2. This is not about the army at all. Funding an army is not redistributive or socialistic, but one of the fundamental tasks of a government, and a valid reason to tax the population.

      Your final sentence is exactly my point. When faced with the natural consequences of their behavior, it will change.

      Why on earth should people (anyone, Arabs included) wean themselves off the goverent dole if you continue to offer a free safety net?

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    3. The 'safety net' provided to Haredim involves extensive additional carve outs to Haredi society - not all Israelis.

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  6. I would like ad the point of charedimm having lower paying jobs. If a charedi man decides he wants to become a lawyer, the "women's lobby" has ensured that he will not be able to get a degree from Hebrew U Law School without compromising on his values requiring gender separate classes. So he has to study law and get a degree from an institution that will result in a lower paying job. Until the "forces that be" demonstrate willingness to accommodate the charedi value system, they are ensuring that charedim will remain socio-economically challenged.
    Another point not emphasized is the percentage of taxes that are direct (income tax) vs indirect (purchase tax VAT). Charedim particiate fully in the latter, which provides the majority of taxes collected by the government

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    1. "Another point not emphasized is the percentage of taxes that are direct (income tax) vs indirect (purchase tax VAT). Charedim particiate fully in the latter, which provides the majority of taxes collected by the government"


      Here are the real figures:
      The ITA's revenues in 2020 totaled NIS 304.5 billion..
      • Revenue from direct taxes - in 2020 totaled NIS 167.2 billion, compared to NIS 168.0 billion in 2019.

      • Revenue from indirect taxes - in 2020 totaled NIS 137.3 billion, compared with NIS 141.4 billion in 2019.

      So no, more revenue comes in from direct taxes. Though it's still roughly half & half.

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    2. And if male and female secular Jews wished to study in a yeshiva, said yeshiva would be so accommodating? Other people have values also.

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    3. There is ZERO halachic imperative to enforce gender separation in an educational institution.

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    4. Charedim pay less VAT as well simply because they have less disposable income to spend. Additionally, Charedim tend to use the underground economy quite a lot where no VAT is collected.

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    5. ravshaya you are correct.
      chareidim live in a society, not in a bubble.
      so they have to accomodate to society.
      it's called 'am yisrael' and they can choose to be a part of it or to live off it. it's their choice.
      until they realize that they will be poor parasites
      (or until the israeli government stops funding the parasitism)

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    6. A charedi wants to become a lawyer in secular Israeli society but expects that very society to jump through his made-up hoops? He better staybinbyeshiva with a mindset like that.

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    7. Exactly what I'm talking about. Since secular society is not willing or able to accommodate, the only path forward for the potential chareidi lawyer is to compromise on his religion. He'd rather stay poor.

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  7. Another point is that this whole exchange is an example of טענו בחיטין והודה לו בשעורין. Anyone following politics here in Israel, even a casual follower, knows that Lapid, Leiberman, et. al. often raise the “chareidim are parasites” claim, using either that specific term or, on occasion, less offensive replacements. The Globes article was coming to counter that specific claim, not to argue that chareidi society contributes as much economically as other sectors do. There is a significant difference between saying, “in the interest of the common good we should look for ways to increase chareidi participation in the work force, both in terms of numbers employed and in terms of the salaries they earn,” on the one hand, and “chareidim are parasites, sucking the blood of their secular and Dati-Leumi neighbors,” on the other. The rebuttal here argues for the first of these, while the Globes article was countering the second.

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  8. There are numerous factors left out in this analysis as well. For example, the author claims that it is in society's interest to subsidize the universities because they are productive. But millions of shekels are being spent for the history, philosophy, Jewish studies and sociology departments (not to mention gender studies) that are not economically viable. Nor are those students who cashed out on the training provided by the state by moving to Silicon Valley asked to return the investment.

    The budget for public broadcasting approximately equals the expenditures for Yeshivos, and nobody asked the Haredim if they agree to that expenditure, or the varied other whims of secular culture.

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    1. People who become historians, philosophers etc. are (A) very few in number, (B) contribute to the advance of knowledge in that area, and (C) do not raise all their children to be historians and philosophers.

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    2. That is all irrelevant to the budgetary decisions. Artificial distinctions are made to justify funding those departments heavily while bemoaning lesser subsidies for the Torah scholarship of Haredi students.

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    3. Here is a very short piece (on a popular Israeli econ blog) that compares the costs of an Avreich to that of a humanities student as well as the financial payoff. Spoiler: Avreichim cost more and put back less.
      https://discussingeconomics.blog/2021/02/17/%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%9e%d7%95%d7%93%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%91%d7%9b%d7%95%d7%9c%d7%9c-%d7%90%d7%99%d7%a0%d7%9d-%d7%93%d7%95%d7%9e%d7%99%d7%9d-%d7%9c%d7%9e%d7%93%d7%a2%d7%99-%d7%94%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%97/

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    4. Regarding point (B), people in kollel publish seforim, give chaburas and shiurim, thus contributing to the advance of knowledge in that area.

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    5. Any form of higher education is a springboard to a career in Western society.

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  9. I just want to point out what seems ironic to me. We have an article in a respected financial website that says one thing. The message is uncomfortable for RNS, so he posts an anonymous response saying how the original article was full of mistakes and the opposite is true.
    Imagine this played out regarding the vaccine. An article in an accepted medical website is undone by some anonymous expert. How would you react?
    It seems to boil down to what message you want to hear, that decides what avenues you'll accept as being legitimate.

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    1. That's not the case at all. It's an op-ed which makes use of a financial report. I posted a response which shows that if you look at the report, it shows a very different picture.

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  10. I would think the most relevant number for this question is the net money each family directly pays to the government?

    Taking the monthly numbers for average households from this post...

    Haredi family: 1524 - 3577 = minus 2053 net
    Non-haredi family: 4461 - 2157 = 2304 net

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  11. I just want to respond to a line right at the top there:

    "Since he is part of the charedi community, he has chosen to remain anonymous."

    You say this so matter-of-factly, and of course we've all seen it before and know it's true. But I couldn't help thinking of this: The mizbeach on Har Eval, which may be the one built by Yehoshua, has been the news over the last week or so since the PA damaged the site. A few years ago, I read a book about the archaeological excavation of the altar.

    At the end of a long list of acknowledgments- dig personnel, students, volunteers, institutions, local Jewish Shomron residents- the author writes (translation mine), "And we must mention our Palestinian friends, who for obvious reasons cannot be named."

    They didn't have to spell out what they meant- we all know. And we all know what R' Slifkin means here. Thank God, the situation among charedim isn't what it is in the West Bank...but it's still very sad.

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  12. Whichever side is right and no matter how you look at it Israel is a great country. If you would talk this way in America you’ll be labeled a racist and become persona non grata

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    1. The (sometimes fraudulent) reliance of American Haredim on subsidies is openly discussed.

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    2. The Chasidim that work and still qualify for programs are discussed but is a different issue and the kollel guys that get programs are a tiny amount compared to what goes on in Israel

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    3. There is truth to this. Rabbi Slifkin lives in Ramat Beit Shemesh, a city that rivals Belfast for its pointless sectarian bigotry. Normal people who do not live in a warzone do not speak like this.

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    4. @The Hat
      Interesting that you mention Belfast. The seige mentality that has come to define Israeli haredi society is also found among Loyalists in NI.

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    5. Shannon, I'm guessing you are from the nationalist community. I get that 'Both siderism' is over simplistic, but both sides have done some shocking and reprehensible atrocities over the years. It's really not just Loyalists.

      The conflict over schools is a particular parallel between Belfast and RBS. If I recall children who attended the Holy Cross RC school has to walk a gauntlet of spitting, hissing, sectarians.

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  13. There is a crisis coming. It should be also borne in mind that Haredi society is also supported by non-Israelis. Anyone looking at such communities as Beth Shemesh, Har Nof, and Neve Yaakov will see that a good deal of whatever wealth there is comes from parents who are living abroad. This wealth cannot be sustained for generations. Haredim need to work as well as "learn" if "learning" is to continue. The whole ethic of learning above-all was a response to the decimation of learning in the Holocaust. Now that learning has been re-established it is not necessary for every man to become a Talmid chacham. There are many ways to live a good and Jewish life.

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    1. But if money supporting Haredim and Yeshivos is coming in from overseas, why is that not a benefit to the Israeli economy?

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    2. so you admit that they are either parasites off the israeli economy or the american economy. but either way they are net takers rather than net givers. nice.

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    3. It is not called a parasite when the support is given to a cause people want to support. Would you call public radio parasitic?

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    4. Many of the wealthy people in the USA, Europe and S. America who are supporting the Yeshivos in a very substantial manner believe that it is their zechus to do so. There are actually many people who believe that the reason they have become wealthy is because G-d entrusts them with the money so that they can support and spread His Torah. Rabbi Slifkin tries his best to convince them otherwise, to no great success.

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    5. It is a benefit, but it won't last forever.

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    6. "It is a benefit, but it won't last forever" This is one of the (many) reasons why MO and RZ education has so much difficulty in transmitting their own religions to their youth. They are convinced that material means are the only way to be assured of success, and their children take that message to heart.

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    7. The incessant call of habit overpowers them. They exert themselves and take pride in their business trade, in which they are losing (since they sell the next world for this world), and which never ceases to distract their minds from the resulting vanities, and to entrench in their hearts its never-ending desires. The more they become embroiled in this world, the more they distanced themselves (from the truth - PL); and the further they distanced from the light of truth from which they parted due to their association with the evil inclination, and the more the darkness engulfed them, and the (love of the lusts of this - PL) world grew on them.

      The striving for its improvement became embellished in their eyes, and they ingrained themselves in it to the destruction of their understanding. The more this world was improved, the greater was the destruction of their understanding, until they considered its evil ways to be good, and its straying to be right, and they turned this into a statute and a moral outlook.

      Parents then bequeathed this outlook to their children, their teachers aroused them in it. The masses were commanded to follow it. Their nobles vied with each other on it, until the evil inclination became firmly entrenched in them and they filled their homes with vanities. What had been strange to them became familiar to them, while the right way became strange to them. Whoever was contented and refrained from pursuing the superfluous, they considered him to be neglecting his duties.


      Each one of them, did as he saw his fellow do. One who only took of this world what was sufficient for himself was called lazy. One who delayed to accumulate of it was considered a slacker. One who was contented with only what he needed was considered a weakling, while he who surpassed this amount was regarded as an industrious man.

      And they praise themselves and pride themselves in it (in reaching material possessions - PL), and on its account they befriend, become angry, and congratulate each other. And in order to benefit from it, they appoint their bellies as their god, fine clothing as their torah, and houses in strong condition as their ethics.

      (Chovos Halevavos, Shaar HaPerishus, Chapter 2)

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    8. IT is one thing to take what is sufficient for yourself and to be content with only what you need. It is another thing to take what you need from others.

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  14. An important component of financial assistance that is never included in these analyses is the indirect contribution by the government to the charedi economy via indirect housing subsidies. Kiryat sefer, elad, beitar illit and other charedi cities were made affordable via indirect subsidies and is the reason that charedi political parties attract much of fheir support. It would be a seevice if someone could put numbers on these indirect subsidies.

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  15. 65% is actually good. With all the propaganda we would think it's a lot lower. And since when does earning less $$$ make someone bad or evil etc.?
    I can imagine you writing the same about Blacks in America for example.
    Ssvi

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  16. Your apologist is a much better liar than the original author.
    Specious comparisons, such as comparing only men to men, instead of entire populations, are just one of the many spins and lies in this article.
    When you compare Haredi high schools to non-haredi high schools, you are proving absolutely nothing. The only relevant comparison is the 16 year old Haredi vs the non-Haredi. And the society receives far less for the Haredi, even if the miniscule amount of Haredi high schools don't receive that much less. The society as a whole receives way less for high school, university age and so on. Why are Haredi educators less than their non-Haredi counterparts? Why separate those workers from others?
    And what this anonymous 'study' ignores is the billions of SHekels that come from Chu"l through the Charedi fundraising apparatuses. Non-Haredim would never be successful in tapping into those funds, so that is a net Haredi benefit to the country.

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    1. your analysis also ignores the longterm negative effects of chareidi institutional ignorance and non participation in science, business and the economy.
      No chareidi businesspeople or scientists means less people innovating, developing or discovering. instead chareidim not only dont contribute to building the country in these fields, but they also take away as they force the country to have to come up with complicated solutions to meet needs of a deliberately non-technological society. so avoiding use of smart phones cause problems in getting messages out to the public in times of public need, cities cant move to smart solutions as it will leave out chareidim , not to mention ignorance leading to non vaccination.

      ive ignored the fact that you seem to have just pashut misunderstood what the anonymous post writer was saying.

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    2. The state of israel doesn't have outside Jewish financial support?
      Secular Israeli charities dont have supporters overseas?
      Are you kidding?

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    3. He means that the secular state is benefiting from charity dollars that are designated in support of Haredi Yeshiva education and spent in Israel. Those funds would not be accessible otherwise to the secular establishment.

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  17. Take a look at this post https://jewishworker.blogspot.com/2013/04/its-all-about-money.html

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  18. This is really a little too much. Who in Israel pays taxes if they can avoid it? Maybe some Mircaz HaRav people? The salaries are low and the cost of living is high, corruption is everywhere, why would anyone pay if he can avoid it? I know no such people among all sectors of the population. This is just common sense. Charedim are trying to remain Torah observant and living the lifestyle that they believe offers the best chance to do so. On the national level there is nothing that can serve as an example why they are wrong. Maybe one day there will be, but we aren't there yet.

    So all these studies, learned articles and haranguing is a waste of time. Exempt them from the army service or require mandatory sterilization for anyone who needs government assistance to support his family and thing will start changing. But nobody is serious about doing anything about the problem anyway. A charedi is trying to survive and pass the mesorah on in a hostile world. This is pretty simple to understand. The obsession with the charedim on this blog will not produce any positive results.

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