Tuesday, August 13, 2019

An Avoidable Tragedy

This is Rotem Amitai.

She was a 43-year old mother of three children who worked as a flight attendant with El Al.

Four months ago, after working on an El Al flight from JFK to Tel-Aviv, she contracted measles from someone on the flight.

Although Rotem had been inoculated as a child, she had only received one dose (which in those days was thought sufficient), which does not give the highest degree of immunity. As a result, she contracted measles from someone on the flight who had measles as a result of not being vaccinated. This led to her developing meningoencephalitis and she slipped into a coma.

This morning, she passed away.

What a senseless, utterly preventable tragedy.

The anti-vaxxers have a lot to answer for.


118 comments:

  1. Is that supposed to be a rational response?

    You are of course aware that the vaxers retort will be to list some kids who dies as a result of the vaccine with the dire comment 'the vaxers have a lot to answer for'.

    Hysterics should never appear on a blog.

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    Replies
    1. the difference is statistic, vaccination complications (including a majority of minor complications) occur in one of 600000 vaccinations, deadly complications of measles in one of 500 cases, beside permanent disabilities like incontinence and paralysis in about 30% of the cases.

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    2. Thats utter nonsense. Quote your source. I worked for Hospital without Walls as a field physician for years and didn't see a single fatality among many cases of measles. Even this case in question the just hospital just released a statement that she contracted a "super-bug" in the hospital leading to her demise.

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    3. Even this case in question the just hospital just released a statement that she contracted a "super-bug" in the hospital leading to her demise.

      Do you have a citation for this? Do you have evidence that she would have died if she hadn't been weakened by the measles infection? How about the fact that she wouldn't have been in the hospital in the first place?

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    4. Yes. Its in Hebrew. Do you want it ?

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    5. @brian

      Of course. Why should the language matter?

      Delete
  2. Replies
    1. In the doctor's office, telling the family to vaccinate their child.

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    2. when the Jenner vaccination was introduce in Ukraine, Rav Nachman of Breslev told his follower that it was a positive commandment to travel to Odessa in order to inoculate a child, though he was (rightly) septic about the medical art of his era, he said about the vaccination that "God was conducting His world better and better".

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    3. There's nothing wrong with that. Whats in question here is why the government is mandating a specifically branded cocktail containing a mix of 3 viruses. And without subjecting it to normal safety trials then enforcing it, without parental consent, while removing single Measles Strain Vaccines from the shelves without any explanation. And whats also disturbing is if you Google "Bill Gates", he has a series of youtube lectures advocating it as one mechanism for "depopulation". So this particular product may have long-term harmful ingredients.

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    4. @Brian,

      If you are really a doctor, I feel horrible for your patients. Assuming they survived your care. Your ability to comprehend information is severely lacking.

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    5. "If you are really a doctor, I feel horrible for your patients. Assuming they survived your care. Your ability to comprehend information is severely lacking." Another abusive post. I'm sorry to report that I see this more on sites where Jews are posting than any other site. It's a rule, if you come to debate Jews, be prepared for the verbal abuse. Even Orthodox Jews who should know the rules of onas devarim.

      Delete
    6. Israel,

      Have you actually done any research into who and what this brian is? He's a fairly evil person, assuming he has a working brain, or he has no working brain, in which case he should not be working in the medical profession, especially as a psychiatrist.

      You've been defending him because you agree with his irrational delusions. You should instead check to see who he is, and maybe get a real education so you can see past the BS he cites.

      I won't be holding my breath.

      Delete
    7. Avi ends his comment with "I won't be holding my breath." Always have insert that toxic comment in there. And I was thinking, no I didn't research him. I'll do that. I'm going by what I see him write. But OK, if there's something to research I'll take a look. As for the part of you that needs some work, that doesn't require any research. It's in your every comment.

      Delete
    8. Israel,

      Do you have a problem with me denouncing dangerous idiots? Or is it just because I struck too close for comfort?

      Delete
  3. Horrible news...how can these anti vax lunatics live with themselves?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This woman was hospitalized and contracted an antebiotic-resistant bug. Israel, which has a relative free-press just announced that the family is sueing for a failure to maintain her in a sterile environment. My opinion on patients with serious infections is to keep them at home and have a nurse visit every 12 hours to check the I.V. Line, ensure hydration, and use antibiotics judiciously. Hospitals are breeding-grounds for treatment-resistant super-bugs.

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    2. Fred antivax people ask the same question about you. This is what's called two sides to an argument. Ever tried it?

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    3. Israel,

      Anti-vaxxers demonstrably want to kill people. Pro-vaxxers demonstrably wish to save people. That makes the former morally-inferior by just about every standard of morality, ever.

      Delete
  4. Replies
    1. Hashem yikom damah.

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    2. That passage applies to fatalities resulting from hate-related violence.

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  5. i have two questions:
    1. is there any evidence that the reason that she never received a second inoculation against measles was because either she or her parents were anti-vaxxers?
    2. is it known whom she was infected by? (how could such a thing even be known regarding someone who flew frequently, when many people who are contagious with measles don't know that they have it). if yes, how did it become known that the person who infected her was not vaccinated, and that the reason for that status was that either they or their parents were anti-vaxxers?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. No, not at all. They probably just didn't get around to it. I don't think there was an anti-vaxx movement 40 years ago.
      2. The press says it was a child from Rockland County.

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    2. 40 years ago in Israel (and probably also other places) kids only got one vaccine

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    3. but how can the press know that, so many other people that she came in to contact with could have been the source. also how would the press know the personal immunization history (and the reason for it) of said child?

      bottom line, it's hard to see how this can be blamed on anti-vaxxers. she chose not to get the recommended second immunization, which itself seems like it was a reasonable decision considering how incredibly unlikely this outcome was.

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    4. The individual child may or may not have been vaccinated. Either way, there were people in the community who weren't vaccinated, which is why measles is around in the first place.

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    5. It was not standard to give two doses until the late 80s. Anyone over 30 likely only had one shot. It's a good idea to have a titer done if you are over 30. I had mine checked and was no longer immune, needed to get a booster. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/health/adults-measles-vaccination.amp.html

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    6. Several of MO schools in the states (or at least the tri-state area) are having their teachers tested for that reason.

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    7. I only got one dose as a child. When a coworker told me about the vulnerability of those who only received one dose this year, I got a booster that week. Absent that alert, I would have had no reason to believe I was less than fully immune. If the anti vaxxers hadn't eviscerated the herd immunity, that would have been moot.

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    8. Dr. Slifkin: Would you allow a hospitalized patient with Septicemia receive MMR ?

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    9. @brian

      Dr Slifkin is not a medical doctor, and is not qualified to answer your question.

      Delete
    10. I wonder how many discussants, aside from myself, have published articles on infectious disease such as the "British Medical Journal", where I published the treatment of three patients infected with a Marburg Virus outbreak in Johannesburg.

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    11. @brian,

      I have to ask: is this you? http://www.briantrappler.com/about/

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    12. @brian,

      How about this one? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6806157/Australian-rabbi-pushed-ground-accused-paedophiles-brother-Israel.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

      Is that you?

      Delete
    13. "I don't think there was an anti-vaxx movement 40 years ago."

      40 years ago we got around 12 shots throughout childhood, not 100, and they weren't filled with preservatives.

      Delete
  6. Measles is not a lethal disease. At the same time legislators are attempting to remove Jewish religious rights, the CDC in conjunction with Merck have harvested Measles Viruses unlike the wild strains. They then, via mandated vaccination cocktails, have introduced Lab strains of Measles into Jewish communities, with the assistance of Merck bribes to the yeshivas, legislators,and naive community doctors. Merck has been exempt by the FDA any requirement for safety studies or idenitification of the harvested Measles dispersed via the MMR. Contracting an unknown virus-genome harvested by Merck of unknown potency would require a one-week period of bed-rest in a darkened room, fluids and vitamins. Believing one can continue life as normal while "shaking it off" could be lethal.Rotem was just another victim of Big Pharma.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. לא תעמוד על דם רעך

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    2. You are one big victim of conspiratorial lies

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    3. Bullets to the head don't kill 100% of the time, either. By your "logic", shooting someone in the head isn't lethal.

      Have you ever considered getting an education in basic biology and statistics?

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    4. Is this meant to be satire?

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    5. I have a yeshiva, how do I get money from Merck? I asked my friends and nobody seems to know about it. Are they pushke stuffing somewhere?

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    6. youtube.com/watch?v=W2YtR6eFWxw
      Fox News does a brief synopsis on the role of CDC in manipulating the data to under-report the link of MMR to Measles following the testimony of a researcher at CDC-turned whistleblower.

      Delete
    7. "You are one big victim of conspiratorial lies"

      Really? I would say Brian has produced the most intelligent, knowledgeable, and articulate posts here.

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    8. Israel,

      Brian is a conspiracy theorist. Nuff said.

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    9. Avi said, "Brian is a conspiracy theorist. Nuff said."

      How about this Avi, a house painter from Austria will band together with a few of his pals, take over Germany, start a world war which will kill 50 million people, and decimate European Jewry.

      Only a crazy conspiracy nut would propose such a thing, right?

      Delete
    10. Thanks for the non sequitur. Do you have an actual rebuttal to my claim? Because you can find plenty of evidence from his own comments to prove it.

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  7. Recall that the narrative is not about physicians administering single-strain attenuated Measles Virus to appropriate populations.Its about pulling the single-strain Measles Vaccines from the shelves and mandating cocktails of three unrelated viruses.Then mandating this triple-virus to the entire population irrespective of their age or immune-status. Including infants as young as 6 months previously deemed unsafe. Then failing to show prospective safety tests and exercising caution and restraint in high-risk individuals such as those with previous vaccine injury. Then granting immunity to Merck against injury-liability. Requiring the government to use tax-payer funds to allocate $2 Billion to settle injury-liability claims. And failing to notify vaccine-recipients that they shed live virus for 10 days or more through body fluids - explainining why the outbreaks of Measles and Mumps are occuring in clusters in the very communities receiving MMR (including those individuals recently vaccinated).Then defunding physicians who report it. No surprise that many Merck employees refuse to vaccinate their kids. But the population has been well indoctrinated to believe that Measles is being spread by healthy children a result of which they're being expelled from yeshivas and socially ostracised.In short, Rotem's death is a tragedy. But let's pause before assigning blame.

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    Replies
    1. Vaccines are safe. Nobody has been indoctrinated to believe anything, except you apparently. Go away.

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    2. In other news, wearing a tinfoil hat has been shown to ENHANCE the ability to monitor a person's thoughts...

      https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/tin-foil-hats-actually-make-it-easier-for-the-government-to-track-your-thoughts/262998/

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    3. Apparently not intended to be satire... G-d help us all.

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    4. Very astute observation, what led to the measles outbreak to begin with?
      It was a vaccine gone awry that spread and affected hundreds.

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    5. If vaccines are so safe, why (according to Bill Gates's Pediatrician) did the same Bill Gates, responsible for vaccine - related death and paralysis of thousands of Infants in India and various African countries, refuse to vaccinate HIS OWN CHILDREN ?

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    6. Absolute nonsense. Gates' pediatrician never said any such thing. Your ability to evaluate the veracity of information is sorely deficient.

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    7. But aside from your inability to assess the likely truth of things, I'm astounded at this particular thing that you choose to believe. I'm ready to believe that all kinds of people are anti-vaxxers. But Bill Gates? If he was anti-vaxx, why would he be investing effort to get millions vaccinated?!

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    8. Because (if you listen to his Youtube lectures) the MMR has been introduced to the larger populaion because of the global-warming threat and need to depopulate the planet. Eugenics allow governments to achieve that selectively. Why would he want to administer Thimerasol to his children ?

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    9. Good grief. You think that Gates has been saying in his lectures that we have to administer vaccines in order to kill people?! (Of course what he's actually saying is that when people are more confident that their children will survive, then they will have less children.)
      So according to you, there's no secret conspiracy about vaccines. Rather, the richest people in the world openly say that vaccines kill people and that they should therefore be administered widely, because they want to kill people?!
      You know, some of your comments had me thinking that maybe you're onto something. But when you claim that Bill Gates OPENLY declares that his goal is to kill millions of people with vaccines, it shows that you are just utterly nuts.

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    10. There was a brief synopsis on thecsubject presented on Fox News:
      youtube.com/watch?v=W2YtR6eFWxw

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    11. Incredible. So you believe that Malka Leifer was never out to harm kids, but Bill Gates is?!?!?!

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    12. "Vaccines are safe. Nobody has been indoctrinated to believe anything, except you apparently. Go away."

      Let's see, Brian offers an intelligent, very informative comment. And your reply is the equivalent of a burp. Who has more credibility here?

      Delete
  8. Because of the anti-vaxxers, those people who want to accuse Jews now have another accusation that they can make against Jews. Long after the anti-vaxxers vanish, the anti-Jewish accusations will continue.

    Because of the anti-vaxxers, a new Chillul HaShem has been born.

    Because of the anti-vaxxers, a few secular-born Jews who seriously consider becoming Orthodox will quit, and go back to their secular ways.

    Because of the anti-vaxxers, a new section of Gehinom has been created, specifically for the purpose of punishing the anti-vaxxers.

    If I were in power, the stupid wicked anti-vaxxers and the traitorous anti-Zionist Neturei Karta would be utterly crushed out of existence, without mercy. I suspect that many people are members of both movements.

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    1. talk about being a conspiracy theorist...

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    2. I like your use of the word "chillul Hashem".Thanks to the cooperation of Yeshivas with Big Pharma, ensuring that the children of parents who have done their due-diligence in researching the dangers of MMR (manufactured by Merck by Germ -Scientists in Germany, and already banned in several countries) hundreds of Jewish kids have been expelled and publicly shamed. They're at home or in the street, thanks to "frum" Principals, unable to learn Torah. Seeing the level of cooperation by Jewish Mosrim, Albany has quickly moved to their next step - forcing a secular curriculum on Yeshivas. Having initially accepted large financial incentives from Merck to support the Vax movement, Aggudas Yisroel have now put out a formal apology to the Orthodox Community, admitting that they "were taken". They've realized that the Vax Narrative is just one step in getting us in line with a far more ambitious agenda.

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    3. " They've realized that the Vax Narrative is just one step in getting us in line with a far more ambitious agenda."

      What ambitious agenda? Mixed dancing? Forcing a relatively small population into a minimum secular curriculum? You think the powers that (are imagined to) be have concentrated all their efforts, (including bribing, blackballing and blackmailing the Rosicrucians and Monaco royal family into a fragile truce) all to get a few thousand skverer boys into a G.E.D. program? Trust me, the conniving neo-paleo-derridaists with their Bush Family Drug Cartel fellow-travelling pinkos have a lot more on their plate than getting little Luzer & Meilech into Phi Beta Kappa.

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    4. Brian Trappler please cite a reference or references for your wild conspiracy rantings. And the National Enquirer counts. I think you should stay away from the internet but based on what you have repeatedly written about Bill Gates (who you are mis-quoting) and Yeshiva-Merck conspiracies you are already a lost cause.

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    5. This you tube exposes how Bill Gates airs his plans on depopulation via Monsanto and eugenics. Many may agree with him. He's not shy to promote his agenda. So its not a question of whether he has an agenda, but whether one agrees with it or not: youtube.com/watch?v=kjBvaBxog5y&feature=share

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    6. Brian Trappler, I notice that you haven't responded to my more recent post, where I pointed out how absurd it is to believe that Gates wants to harm and kill children.

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  9. The next Godol HadorAugust 14, 2019 at 1:03 PM

    Mr Cohen I think you are being a bit harsh.

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  10. seem to be a lot more deaths from the vaccine - over 100 - than measles. https://healthimpactnews.com/2015/zero-u-s-measles-deaths-in-10-years-but-over-100-measles-vaccine-deaths-reported/

    having just experienced two grandchildren change from healthy kids to miseable ones with poor appetite and {in one case] repeated pneumonia after the MMR vaccine it is not easy to say these injections are free of problems.

    Yes if you want to rant and rave about the 'stupid wicked anti-vaxxers' you are free to make a three year old style response, but I would love to see an adult response that actually takes a balanced look. measles causes problems that's true. but the incidence of measles and of problems was in sharp decline long before the vaccine. and when you get to very low incidence then the problems of the vaccine itself, given to the whole population, become significant. It's a delicate balance and I don't know the answer myself. I'm just not a ranter and raver.

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    1. I am an adult and I would like to see how you know the vaccine had anything to do with your grandchildren's misery. Perhaps they are miserable because they didn't get the chanuka present they wanted, or there was a shortage of chips in the chocolate chip cookies, or the coke they drank was missing some bubbles, or maybe their shoes were too tight.
      Basically, you need something more scientific than that.

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    2. Seems to be that you are completely irrational. Compare deaths to measles before the vaccines existed to deaths confirmed to have been caused by the vaccines. The numbers do not favor anti-vaxxers.

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    3. You happen to be correct. But who cares about the facts. By the way, legislators in Albany having seen the ease with which they got school administrators on board reporting or expelling inadequately vaccinated kids, then moved on to legislate against learning Torah in Yeshivas by mandating core-curriculum. We're heading in the direction of the Soviet Union (as it was).

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    4. Articles are now surfacing in Israeli news outlets that the patient picked-up a hospital-based antebiotic-resistant bug. The population has to realize that being admitted to a hospital carries certain risks. Aside from being exposed to antibiotic-resistant bugs, sick patients are routinely receiving Pmeumonia and Flu-shots at a time previously deemed clinically inappropriate. When a patient is hospitalized for Septicaemia or treatment that suppresses immunity (e.g.for auto-immune diseases), why vaccinate them ? Cant the medical industry wait for their first well follow-up visit ?

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    5. @brian thanks for the crucial bit of extra info which of course the mainstream media would not push in the same way that they pushed the [tragic] story of this woman's death.

      @Avi perhaps you'd care to actually look at the chart displayed in the link I posted.

      @someone else I happen to be a medical doctor apart from a grandparent and we noticed the difference instantly in two grandchildren. How do you notice the difference between a raw egg and a cooked one? BTW Chanuka occurs mid winter and they had the vaccine a few weeks ago. Just saying. Is that meant to be an adult argument?

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    6. Did you immediately jump to vaccines, or did your medical education skip the part about how correlation is not the same as causation? Also, why not link to a real study?

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    7. even if the "final straw" was the antibiotic resistant bug, measles is still why she was in the hospital in the first place. Right?

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    8. @Skeptic

      I don't have to look at charts to know that cherry-picked data can show whatever you want it to.

      Compare deaths caused by measles before any vaccines were available to deaths claimed by vaccines (note the key word there is "claimed"). Go ahead. We'll wait.

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    9. Yosef R. Are you saying that we should bypass the Medical Examiner and just copy-and-paste "Reason for admission" with "Cause of death" ?

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  11. It was her own responsibility to check her immune status and get a booster if she wanted to protect herself and believed that vaccination was the way to do that. She made a choice, took the risk, and in her case contracted measles and died from its complications. It is ultimately a tragic (and rare) result of her own action or inaction regarding her own immune status.

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    1. Before the outbreaks caused by anti-vaxxers, did you know that a booster might be necessary? If so, you are almost certainly in the minority.

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  12. "It's not the serpent that kills or heals"
    The woman unfortunately was meant to die.

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    1. Thoughtless idiot.
      Lets see you say that when it's your daughter

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    2. "The woman unfortunately was meant to die."

      According to who?

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    3. It's Emunah 101 that only those decreed by God to die perish. Anyone else have a different understanding of Emunah?

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    4. Setting the record straight, if it was so simple, why are murderers punished? Why bother going to a doctor? Why wear a seatbelt?

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    5. Yes. Sane people.

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    6. That doesn't mean it can't be changed or done with a different method. Do you fast on Yom Kippur? Why bother, since it's been decreed anyway? "Because God said so" only works on people who can't think.

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    7. STRS: Emunah 101 must be passed by undergrads before moving on to more difficult topics. Second years students will cover Emunah 214: Activism & Apathy as an elective course. One the mandatory readings for Emunah 214 is ספר החינוך on מעקה:
      לפי שעם היות השם ברוך הוא משגיח בפרטי בני אדם... וכל אשר יקרה להם טוב או רע בגזרתו ובמצותו, לפי זכותן או חיובן. וכענין שאמרו זכרונם לברכה (חולין ז ב), אין אדם נוקף אצבעו מלמטה אלא אם כן מכריזין עליו מלמעלה, אף על פי כן צריך האדם לשמר עצמו מן המקרים הנהוגים בעולם

      Summary: Even though everything that happens to a person is decreed by הקב"ה, we still have to protect ourselves from natural dangers...

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    8. One way to look at it:
      she was destined to die in order to remind everyone to vaccinate properly. Had the world not gotten confused on this issue, it would have remained in a state where such a reminder would not have been necessary, so she would have lived.

      Also, hishtadlus.

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    9. I forgot the mekor for this, but i remember learning that Reuven decided to throw Yosef in the pit with animals, because if an animal kills a person it is 100% hashgacha, but when a person is left at the mercy of man, that person's bechira can overpower a decree so to speak and cause an early death. Now i'm not sure if this unfortunate death can be claimed as by 'animal' (the virus) or a human being's bechira/negligence. In any event a human decision had to do with it and that is unacceptable.

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    10. What you're referring to is in the Or HaChaim in Vayeshev.

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    11. To articulate the commonly known information on the subject, if humans can't interfere with other humans' health wealth and happiness, thieves, murderers, etc. aren't off the hook for their crimes because 'it would have happened anyway'. The Torah mandates punishment for these things. Why? I heard an explanation but don't think it's necessary. The punishments are explicit in the Torah. The interested in the reason may investigate.

      If OTOH humans CAN interfere with other humans' health wealth and happiness, it's obvious that they can be punished for interpersonal crimes.

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  13. "The anti-vaxxers have a lot to answer for."

    I'll take you down the block to my neighbor whose child was just fine until the night she got vaccinated. I'll take you to my other neighbor whose vaccinated kids all had learning disabilities except for the kids who were born after she stopped vaccinating.

    Maybe it isn't so simple Rabbi Doctor who claims to be a man of reason but whose posts are regularly saturated in schmaltz.

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    1. How about you go (back) to school so you can learn that correlation does not equal causation and that the plural of anecdote is not data.

      The facts show that vaccines are safer than OTC pain medications. Know anyone who lived with a migraine "just in case"?

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    2. "I'll take you down the block to my neighbor..."

      The inability of laypeople to understand even the rudiments of statistics (necessary to critically evaluate almost phenomenon) is frightening.

      Avi, I doubt Israel is equipped to understand the difference between causation and correlation, or between anecdotal "evidence" and meaningful data.

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    3. Do you know what inbreeding is? That's why so many religious Jews have learning disabilities and other mental impairments. It's not because of vaccines.

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    4. @Just

      His own words confirm that he isn't. That's why I suggested he go(es back) to school.

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    5. "The inability of laypeople to understand even the rudiments of statistics (necessary to critically evaluate almost phenomenon) is frightening.' Everyone watch Just Curious tried to sound intellectual. You want correlation vs. causality. Look at the trend lines for vaccinations and eradication of disease and how the vaccinations generally follow eradication rather than precede it. It was indoor plumbing that did the heavy lifting.

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    6. Why are poor theories on Zionism often (always?) mixed up with poor theories of science? Can't you separate the two? As an aside, it's pretty funny that "Israel" Shapiro refutes confusing correlation with causality by....confusing correlation with causality. Stick to what you know, rehashing garbled Satmar slogans.

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    7. I see this antivaxxer is embracing his inner rotzeach. I guess he doesn't care that this poor woman was murdered by the antivaxxers because she isn't frum? These dudes are rodfim in our community

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  14. Although I pity this poor girl, the fact is that she dead DESPITE she was duly vaccinated.
    Therefore vaccination does got provide a warranty.
    I do vaccinate my children, but generally speaking I don't understand what is a sin (from the rationalist approach) to be skeptical about vaccination.
    BTW I am familiar with one old man who became disabled by vaccination against flu, which is promoted so much in last years.

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    1. She was not "duly vaccinated." She only had one dose (since 2 doses weren't required at the time). 1 dose doesn't give full immunity. Vaccines work when they're given properly. Your skepticism is unwarranted. And nobody said vaccines have no side effects, just that they work the vast, vast majority of the time. Those few exceptions aren't enough to discourage vaccinating.

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    2. Missing the main point. If everyone is vaccinated, then everyone is better protected.

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  15. For all those who are blaming the victim: the basic recommendation for an adult with no proof of immunity or prior vaccination is a single dose of MMR. People generally are immunized as children and go with the recommendations made at that time. The only reason that she would possibly have been recommended to get a second shot as an adult (which is also not guaranteed to work) is because she was in a high risk setting *because of those who did not vaccinate and enabled a measles epidemic to start and spread*.

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  16. 1) Anybody who has suffered a side effect after having a vaccine of any type need to have it reported to the appropriate agency.
    2) I know of gentiles calling Orthodox Jews who do not vaccinate the 'crazies'. They resent them Jews creating a dangerous environment.
    3) From my experience Orthodox Jews of my generation followed commonly accepted and approved medical practice: Surgeries, Medical tests, Vaccines etc: To do otherwise was considered an aveirah, Chillul Hashem etc:
    4) We need more Rabbis like Rabbi Slifkin to write and speak out on vaccinations.

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    1. I know orthodox Jews who do vaccinate that call other orthodox Jews who do not vaccinate "crazies" and who resent them for creating a dangerous environment.

      Both groups are correct in their name calling and everything else you wrote is correct.

      Delete
    2. Jews are the most intolerant people on earth. No such thing as respecting somebody else's opinion. If you don't agree with me you are a this, that or the other. Let the people who like vaccines take them and the ones that don't like them don't take them. How about that instead of all the name calling? No, can't do that with Jews and certainly not Orthodox Jews.

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  17. No, fool. Because not taking vaccines endangers others. So I can't let your stupidity go unchallenged. That's the point of this post. You and your non-vaccine taking friends are killing others. You played a part in killing this airline stewardess.
    In this case the orthodox jews are 'in my back yard' as I'm also an orthodox jew, so I have to do my part in cleaning up our stable. And that includes making it clear to all that you anti-vax lot are morons with blood on your hands.
    Was that 'eilu va'eilu' enough for you?
    (oh, yeah, I forgot, Frum Jews only get liberal about respecting others beliefs when their moronic attitudes get challenged. Otherwise they simply pour condescending abuse on liberals or goyim.)

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    1. "No, fool. Because not taking vaccines endangers others. So I can't let your stupidity go unchallenged."

      Can't you make your arguments without being abusive? I'll bet you are a Zionist too because that's the rule with Zionists - anyone who disagrees with you is a this, that, or the other.

      What does the other side say, that taking vaccines - at least preservative laden vaccines - endangers health. So they have the same sort of argument you have, a bit stronger though because you are demanding they get injected with something they deem dangerous and the danger to you is only incidental. Not only that, but you claim vaccines protect you so what does it matter if the other guy is protected or not. Won't your precious vaccine save you from all harm, if indeed it really works.

      There's two sides to the argument. But you can't see that. Anybody who disagrees is an idiot. That unfortunately is very common in the Jewish world. There's no respect for the other side. No ability to see two sides of an argument. And Zionists are the worst about this. I'm guessing you are a Zionist.

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    2. That was a response to 'Israel' above (Aug 17, 2019 at 10:39 pm)

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    3. I'd love to know if the brian trappler is the same one who defended Malka Leifer's "right" to evade justice.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6806157/Australian-rabbi-pushed-ground-accused-paedophiles-brother-Israel.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

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    4. Israel there are no two sides here. There are idiots who put lives at risk and then there are facts.
      Don't you get it?

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    5. "Israel there are no two sides here. There are idiots who put lives at risk and then there are facts.
      Don't you get it?"

      So you can't stop yourself, huh. Every post must be condescending and abusive? Don't you realize that weakens your argument? There are 1000s of doctors who question vaccines. There are medical studies as well, one recently from Yale. If you can't see the other side of the argument, I wonder how good your arguments are for your side. Is this how you approach every argument? For example, do the Palestinians have any valid gripe against the Israelis or is that argument simple too? No other side. When Rav Moshe Sternbuch shlita wrote his teshuva on the subject recently, he mentioned the dangers of vaccines. Every medical procedure has dangers.

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    6. Fozziebear: Voltaire said "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers." And since you only have answers and no questions, what do we say about you?

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