Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Rabbi Leib Tropper Resigns

Readers may remember an earlier post about Rabbi Leib Tropper and Eternal Jewish Family. Rabbi Tropper just announced his resignation. Unfortunately, Rabbi Tropper's replacement, Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, maintains the same views as Rabbi Tropper, regarding the acceptance of the antiquity of the universe and of scientific errors in the Talmud placing one beyond the pale of acceptable Jewish beliefs (Rabbis Tropper and Wachtfogel were two of the figures primarily involved in the ban of my books).

56 comments:

  1. One might wonder if there could be a connection between anti-science dogmatism and this type of corruption. I suggest the following.

    To maintain that the Halachic process rules over scientific fact is not so far from thinking that Halacha defines all, including all ethics. Who thinks that Halacha is the sole source of ethics, can try to justify abominations with halachic reasoning. For instance, he can say that because women cannot be witnesses, there are no witnesses to private sexual acts. And if there are no witnesses, it is as if it did not happen. And so forth.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Natan Slifkin,
    Why are you posting loshon horah or motzei shem rah when you don't know the facts. Where is your Irat Shamaim? Stick with the Behaimas, stay away from daas Torah you are not a Torah authoriry, Rabbi Wachtfogel is, he could make shmatah out of you in learning. Clean your mouth with bleach before you speak of this holy Rosh Yeshivah. Don't rejoice over other people's downfall, you might fall off your elefant some day. Actually you have already. In the Torah world you are irevelant. Your hatred toward Jews who look different(Hareidim)than you is so obvious yet, you are so blind to see it.
    Yerachmiel Kochav Stern

    ReplyDelete
  3. Rabbi Slifkin,
    i am an admirer of your works and do hope that you show what a true mentch is like and do not spend anytime gloating of the downfall of your enemies.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Kind of like being a naval b'rshus haTorah?
    What was that again, about derech eretz preceding the Torah?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I doubt there's any connection between Tropper's position on Torah-Science and his private behavior, other than that his private behavior negates any sincerity on his part.

    In other words, all of his positions regarding Torah, Halacha, Hashkafa, etc. are power plays and melagomania, not true intellectual positions.

    None of this reflects on the large number of Rabbis who truly believe that their position is correct and Rabbi Slifkin's is incorrect.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Natan,

    Why do you think the world revolves around yourself? What relationship is R. Tropper et al's position on you and your books have to do with their activities vis-a-vis EJF?

    ReplyDelete
  7. "Who thinks that Halacha is the sole source of ethics, can try to justify abominations with halachic reasoning."

    And he who thinks that Halacha is half the sources of ethics, while something else is the other half, can also try to justify abominations with halachic and/or *other* reasoning.

    No escaping rationalization.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I think many people want to respect all rabbonim, but they feel threatened and interpret the various situations as giving strength to the more RW side.

    EJF had speakers who publicly announced that all who believe certain opinions are passul l'geirus and dayanus, so of course people feel threatened and alienated.

    There have been people confused by the bans, and feel distanced from their community over, for lack of a better term, "sliding to the right". I think that some of the more middle-of-the-road rabbonim from YU and from the moderate-Right, for lack of a better term, should give chizuk to the population and allay their fears.

    I also wish there would be someone with a vision and who can analyze the present, and write of the future in terms of trends and/or someone who is able to write a fair, respectful, and balanced sociology of haredi Orthodoxy.

    Part of the problem with a "vision" is that there is a lot of unknowns, political and security situations, economic situations, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  9. @Moshe Rafael:

    But if ethics come from outside halachah, what good is it?

    ReplyDelete
  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Why do you think the world revolves around yourself? What relationship is R. Tropper et al's position on you and your books have to do with their activities vis-a-vis EJF?

    What do you mean? It's the exact same issue! He's trying to disqualify geirim and dayyanim based on their views regarding Torah/science!

    ReplyDelete
  12. i am an admirer of your works and do hope that you show what a true mentch is like and do not spend anytime gloating of the downfall of your enemies.

    I hope that I am not gloating. And I have been much, much more concerned about R. Tropper's activities with EJF than with his role in the banning of my books.

    ReplyDelete
  13. But if ethics come from outside halachah, what good is it?

    See Ramban on Ve-asisa hayashar vehatov.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "To maintain that the Halachic process rules over scientific fact is not so far from thinking that Halacha defines all, including all ethics."

    Nice suggestion. Big problem though.

    I maintain that scientific facts and Halacha must match. I also maintain that Halacha is the only source of Ethics (for Jews).

    If there is any connection to be drawn, it is that R. Tropper's position on Science was not based on holy reasons. That is all you can draw from this.

    ReplyDelete
  15. "EJF had speakers who publicly announced that all who believe certain opinions are passul l'geirus and dayanus, so of course people feel threatened and alienated."

    To me, it just means that I can ignore anything they say.

    If I'm in the minority on that point, then I'll have to look into that. But in the meantime, I'll assume I'm in the majority on that point.

    Just like I don't get insulted/aliented etc when a Christian talks about what saves or does not save a person.

    ReplyDelete
  16. The pashkavil spoke of one who behaves like zimri but expects the rewards of a pinchus. I thought it was a very apt phrase because Mr. Tropper's guise was that he was a true kannoi and thus could even be trusted on chidushim. One of the ways in which he feigned kannois lashem shamayim was his role in the Slifkin Ban.

    In this Tropper was clever because he understood that we have reached a point where emes, halachah, and shaklah v'taryah have been replaced by a single criterion for status, how right wing you are. For that alone there is no shir.

    This obsession allowed him to play his cohfidence game and get haskamos galore. Yes a few protested. But most stayed right behind him.

    Now, I would say the tapes are the least important thing. What matters is an honest reckoning by those who enabled him. They have to do a din v'cheshbon on what defective values and judgements blinded them or even bought them over to enable such crimes. Future generations will marvel at how 3,000 Druckman conversions were challenged while they fell for the claim that Tropper could be an honest dayan for EJF conversions. Even before the tapes, he should have been rejected as a dayan because of the chashash that he stole tzedakah from Guma to many rabbonim.

    So I would say, forget the tapes and worry more about how he suckered others and how they failed their responsibilities when they gave their haskomos. Forget even about the evidence against the rabbonim. Based on the outcome they were either corrupt or inept. Either way how can those who were supposed to watch the chicken coop be the ones to clean up.

    Frankly, it seems to me that those who were truly misled should at least announce their regret that it happened on their watch, admit that they are nogeiah b'davar at least to the extent of being concerned not to look bad, and turn it over to true outsiders.

    Also, I am very distressed that no one involved has yet seen fit to apologize to the women who were misused this way. Finally, the corruption includes the fact that nobody has said that this Tropper is someone who endangers anyone who is exposed to him in education or kiruv. Why is no one taking achrayis to prevent further tragedies.

    Last, if the internet ban on Friday was designed to block this story, this is more evidence how the anti-reality stance has devolved into corruption rather than a machlokes l'shem shamayim.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous @2,

    Did you see anywhere in this post where Rabbi Slifkin said anything at all about why Tropper resigned? Slifkin's post is apparently a surprisingly effective ink blot test.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Nosson,
    I hope and pray that you choose the high road, without gloating etc.
    To be honest I would have felt much better had you not brought this mess up at all.
    Best wishes

    ReplyDelete
  19. I am not gloating. Besides, as I mentioned earlier, the significance of this is not with regard to what R. Tropper did to me (which is long in the past and unimportant), but rather with regard to his threat to geirim and centrist Orthodoxy.

    ReplyDelete
  20. You are seriously not mocking people who actually do believe the world is only 5770 years old are you? Do you have actually undeniable scientific proof otherwise not just theory? Were you there at the time of creation?

    I understand there are many opinions including yours which are perfectly acceptable to me but this does not negate other acceptable Jewish views even if they don't fit into your own rationalist philosophy or conflict with science.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I should clarify that there are opinions that the world like Adam was created in a mature form.
    Some say to test individual emunah in the Torah...

    I personally don't care and have my personal views but am tolerant of any other view...

    ReplyDelete
  22. This is a really important reason to continue this blog because there seems to be few places even on the internet where a reasonable attitude to true Yiddishkeit exists. Moderates are pressured to agree to Chareidi attitudes or risk being put into cheirum. Take the case of the Chief Rabbi, when threatened by a ban he capitulated and recanted his book.
    Please continue for the sake of Judaism
    (Its similar to Kashrus authorities are pressured to keep the most chumras if they want the widest possible acceptance which detracts from the majority)

    ReplyDelete
  23. i know reb leib tropper
    this is insane...hello????????
    why are you foaming at the mouth
    to judge him???

    ReplyDelete
  24. >>>> Do you have actually undeniable scientific proof otherwise not just theory?

    Chaimj,

    Tell me, do you believe the world is round?? Do you personally have undeniable evidence proof that it is.? Yet you trust science on this. Well, this same science says the universe is very old and that is based on solid hard science, not theory. Read up on it.

    And as for the “theory” that God created a mature universe, i’ll admit it is possible but completely illogical for the following reasons (among others):

    1) why would God plant all kinds of evidence of old age, fossils, tree rings etc.? And if He did plant evidence, then true justice says I cannot be held responsible for believing the evidence.
    2) Why has this idea never been proposed by any of our sages prior to science proving an old universe.
    3) And further if you do believe that Adam was created mature, then how do you know that the whole world wasn’t created just 5 minutes ago, with appearance that it has a history. Ein l’dovar sof.

    And on top of this, the theory doesn’t explain the many other “myths” found in Breishit, most particularly the Flood and the Tower of Babel stories.

    ReplyDelete
  25. And just to continue from Elemir's point:

    To believe in a world that was created old requires believing in an incredibly deceptive deity. This contradicts both what is said in morning davening every day at the end of Shemai and contradicts multiple fairly explicit statements in Tehilim about how the universe testifies to God's glory.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Firstly deception is a problem only if you are rewarded and punished by what you believe... for Jews this is only for acts.

    Maybe the deception of age is there so that you can calculate / plan ahead using those figures... Does that make sense?

    I am not looking for arguments. I am not trying to convince anybody of anything. Just asking questions and looking for open communication and debate.

    I personally am a Lubavitcher and a physician.. I follow the Rebbe's understandings of science which there are many many letters... but I always like to learn other perspectives and arguments of which I have no personal problem with.

    I have no idea that the truth is.......

    p.s. there are pictures of a round earth

    I will look for older commentator on this "mature" theory... I have heard there is but do not know off hand.

    According to kabbala/Chassidis the world is being created constantly from nothing...

    ReplyDelete
  27. Chaim, we don't use calendars based on the Earth being 4.5 billion years old.

    Moreover, whether or not it is a problem of justice is a distinct issue from whether or not deception is ok.

    I've met at least one chabadnik who wouldn't be yotzei kiddush of someone who accepted evolution. And Tropper who is discussed in the original post above tried to get it so that people couldn't convert unless they thought that the Earth was young. So this is having a real impact on actual practice.

    ReplyDelete
  28. >>>> Firstly deception is a problem only if you are rewarded and punished by what you believe... for Jews this is only for acts.
    Chaimj,
    This is not quite correct. Admittedly, the written Torah never talks about beliefs…however, the Talmud introduces the concept of a heretic and that he cannot earn Olam habo. So to traditional Judaism, what you believe counts…i truly hope that somehow this can will change.

    >>>> Maybe the deception of age is there so that you can calculate / plan ahead using those figures... Does that make sense?
    HUH??

    >>>>> I personally am a Lubavitcher and a physician

    I too studied in Lubavitch until the end of high school ….. and the Rebbe to me was the Godol Hador, but his purported view of science turned me off, as well as some of the hashkofot taught to me in yeshiva. And then when his chassidim went bananas with this moshiach nonsense …well…

    >>>> p.s. there are pictures of a round earth
    Did you take the pictures personally …how do you know they are not fabricated??
    BTW, historically, I think, people began to suspect the earth was curved when they noticed 2 things. 1) the shadow thrown by the earth on the moon during a lunar eclipse was curved and 2) when a very large ship was spotted on the horizon, the bow appeared before the rest of the ship.
    >>>> According to kabbala/Chassidis the world is being created constantly from nothing...
    Well what can I say, you are entitled to your beliefs, as long as it doesn’t harm someone else.

    ReplyDelete
  29. "To believe in a world that was created old requires believing in an incredibly deceptive deity. This contradicts both what is said in morning davening every day at the end of Shemai and contradicts multiple fairly explicit statements in Tehilim about how the universe testifies to God's glory."

    Two things.

    1. Whats wrong with a deceptive deity?

    2. Creating the world old is "natural" not deceptive.

    The explanation I once heard and made the most sense is as follows.

    Presume you have a magician who tells you he is about to create a tree. He points his wand at the earth, and nothing appears to happen. Some years go buy, and you see a baby tree growing from that spot. Would you believe the magician created that tree?

    On the contrary, what it means to us for something to be "created" just like that, would be for the magician to point his wand, and suddenly a really large tree will appear out of nowhere. Now say you cut that tree down, what would you expect?

    How many rings would that tree have? Would those rings all be the same thickness or not? The common natural expectation is that you would see a many rings all of different sizes, just as you would a tree that has allready existed for a very long time.

    In movies, when we say that they are able to clone people.. the clones are created as adults, not tiny babies.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I cannot fathom the absurdity of those on this page talking about gloating or judging.

    R' Slifkin, given what you underwent at the hands of this man and what he has been shown as now, I cannot imagine a more restrained and menshlikeit response than what you posted here--especially in light of what Yeracmeil Lopin above points out about the connection between the two, which I rather agree with.

    Further, those of us who have ever actually listened to what you say have heard your openness to the opinions of others who would never grant you the same courtesy. Yeshar koach to you and what you do.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous,

    Well for one, I don't see why a deceptive deity would be worth worshiping. But as I also pointed out, a deceptive deity directly contradicts standard Jewish beliefs. If you are a frum person, then everymorning you say Hashem Eilokechem Emet. There's no way to reconcile that with a deity would would go out of its way to deceive people.

    Your second point is simply incoherent. The fact that movies clone people in a ridiculous fashion seems to have nothing to do with anything at all. (In real life, a clone would start as a baby and grow up through the normal process. I have no idea what point you are trying to make there).

    And no, I wouldn't necessarily expect a magician's tree to have tree rings. Especially if there was some question of whether the magician had actually made the tree or had put it there by a clever trick. Now, that's all the more so if the magician is supposed to be this nearly omnipotent entity that has no restrictions on how it poofs things at all. For God to do otherwise means that God has made a decision to make an world look old when there's no need to do so.

    Omphalism is bad theology, bad philosophy and bad science.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I have a whole chapter on the Omphalos approach in The Challenge Of Creation.

    The question to ask is not "would God create a tree with rings" but "would God create Adam with scars and memories of a childhood that he never had." Nimshal - the world has memories (i.e. fossils, cave paintings, etc.) of eras of life from more than 6000 years ago. It's not just "mature" - it's aged, with prior history.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Sam, thank you for your kind words, I appreciate it.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Proven over and over and over again:

    The more venemous they are -- the more skeletons they have in the closet.

    R' Slifkin - enjoy the Schadenfreude.

    Ari Enkin

    ReplyDelete
  35. "enjoy the Schadenfreude.

    And the author of that comment calls himself a "rabbi"?

    "enjoy" ?

    ReplyDelete
  36. Concerned about ShalomDecember 18, 2009 at 5:37 PM

    What has happened to us over here?!? For those who do not know, the definition of "schadenfreude" is "the enjoyment over someone else's misfortune." I am sure many readers recall the famous pasuk "Binfol oyvecha al tismach" and the famous midrash about "maasei yadai tov'im bayam ve'atem omrim shira?!" How can anyone, let alone a rabbi, suggest that there be joy in the misfortune of another? Rabbi Slifkin, I would humbly suggest that you, as moderator of this blog, publicly repudiate the sentiment of that comment.

    ReplyDelete
  37. What a waste of time all this arguing over religion is! Instead of being able to enjoy life, we are thrust into the hands of religious leaders when we are kids and they indoctrinate us with what they claim is the word of god and if we dont follow it, then the fear of eternal damnation follows. Welcome to a life of neurotic guilt and paranoia. As a kid, I was a talmid of tropper and as is usual in yeshiva, he was lauded as an iluy, genius, tzadik, gadol who could memorize encyclopedias standing on his head and therefore, all his words were laden with truth and wisdom since no one else could dare challenge his knowledge. and tropper raised an entire generation or two, maybe three of students like myself who had an innocent belief in god and wanted to follow our own spiritual path, judaism, as opposed to following the paths chosen by our friends like buddhism and hare krishna. but instead of spiritual path, smooth, loving, easy going with kindness like that of avraham, our path was laden with minefields of fundamentalism, extremism, worship of the black hat over love of family, worship of the gedolim over common sense, worship of daas torah like tropper over the reaction of non devotees of his which ranged from seedy to creepy to why cant he speak english? but those blinded by fear in the god who will strike us dead for accepting scientific fact can rarely see reality. we want the magical belief that if we adhere to the law like tropper and his ilk claim it is to be done, then we will live forever in olam haba. so while tropper assisted in ruining the lives of thousands of innocent and open minded young jews, drowning their consciousness with the evil of a woman wearing trousers chas veshalom, he was having women fulfill rape fantasies for him and menage a trois with his wife. sweet. of course i cannot hope he will rot in hell, cause im sure at this point that there is neither a heaven or hell , only that short amount of time we have on earth to make this life our heaven. sure i regret all the years of being in troppers bubble where life on earth is hell, except for him , where he has power ordained by himself and an endless flock of willing women to serve his sexual perverted appetite to be accepted as jews. is tropper jewish? because he came out of a jewish womb? and because he has knowledge and can learn gemora or write seforim about halacha? misleading generations is not jewish, he is just a sleazy con artist using torah as his tool of power to control his flock of gullible idealists. if the troppers were in control of the planet, we wouldnt have science or medicine or any technology, oh , but we would have women who didnt wear trousers, now that is progress!

    ReplyDelete
  38. "Concerned" - I am still working through the issues. Meanwhile, I recommend that everyone read R. Student's post on "Rejoicing over an enemy's downfall" and R. Basil Herring's article on it in Tradition.

    ReplyDelete
  39. i dont see anyone rejoicing over his 'fall'....the point is that tropper is another fake, phony and fraud in the footsteps of other 'rabbis' who do not even believe for a moment what they are preaching, their rightwing extremism is a ploy for power, thats it...but it is a good thing for us to see, not to be seduced by those who claim to know that god wants jewish women to not wear pants and then the moshiach can come. I think god wants the heart and is not as interested in fashion, but like i said before, arguing about it is a waste of time....hopefully there are thousands of potential baal tshuvas now who will be saved from a life of fundamentalism such as tropper, tendler and the zaks espouse despite their being the last people anyone should take moral instruction from. have a peaceful shabbos.

    ReplyDelete
  40. i dont see anyone rejoicing over his 'fall'

    Did you miss Ari Enkin's post?

    ReplyDelete
  41. I don't know details of the story, but it certainly is appropriate to rejoice over the fall from power of an evil person, if that is the case here.

    There is no need to wish any personal suffering on someone to be glad to see that he will no longer be harming others from a position of influence

    ReplyDelete
  42. There is no need to wish any personal suffering on someone

    ephraim, Perhaps you didn't understand the meaning of "schadenfreude".

    ReplyDelete
  43. again Reb Aaron, lets not focus on the negative, how about focusing on the positive that Boruch Hashem, Tropper and his ilk like Tendler are defrocked and will no longer be able to damage more people who come to Torah sincerely and deserve to not be bamboozled by nonsense and just want to walk on a spiritual path, not one paved with hypocricy built on halachic extremism which is espoused by people like him to maintain their control and power over everyone. What a joke that he revoked the geirus of a woman that wore pants while he was conniving to take off the pants of another who is not his wife. So, lets stay focused on what a great Nes this is during chanukah that Hashem let the truth shine forth and lit up the darkness for many many baalei tshuva who are still today under his control in Kol Yaakov and Horizons and who hopefully will see the light and be able to relax and think sanely about their path without the anxiety and pressure caused by his halachic terrorism. I know, I was in his Yeshiva long enough and that was his power, that he knew halachically what we baalei tshuva had to do in order to make Gd happy, otherwise, no olam haba for us, just gehinnom. Not fun. So instead of thinking of Tropper, I urge you to think about the thousands of jews who are now liberated from his tyranny, his Torah with no mercy, his geirus control and perhaps they will be able to actually love their identities as Jews and love their spiritual path and be happy in life, not full of anxiety and fear that they are not doing things right because they are not such a big chacham in Torah like tropper. This is something to celebrate! This is what Im thinking of , that on Chanukah of Tov Shin Ayin, Hashem has saved many of us by letting us see the truth. The world stands on Truth and Kindness. I cannot pray to a God that supports Tropper, who loves tropper and now that Gd exposed the Truth, I for one feel vindicated in my previous disdain for his aura and path though I never had proof. Now there is proof that we were not crazy in thinking that he himself was off the derech and leading us to the same edge of insanity that he clearly fell off of. Have a great day!

    ReplyDelete
  44. "Fred's Son" writes the following: "What a waste of time all this arguing over religion is!"

    Fred's Son, you would be hard pressed to prove that all your words following that exhortation were not a violation of that exhortation, with what looks like the biggest argument-picking claim in this whole post.

    ReplyDelete
  45. haha..thanks!, but you apparently missed the point, which is alright. have a nice night.

    ReplyDelete

  46. ephraim, Perhaps you didn't understand the meaning of "schadenfreude"


    Not just perhaps. Ich Sprecht nisht Deutsche (and I'm sure that's wrong).

    I was only trying to express my own feelings, not to react to your exact comment.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Concerned about ShalomDecember 21, 2009 at 6:50 PM

    R. Slifkin,

    I admire your honesty in saying that you are working through the issues in terms of your feelings about R. Tropper, given the history between you. I wish you courage and truth in resolving the issues. Still, I beg of you to consider that whatever personal issues do exist, your putting forth a statement on this website repudiating the sentiment behind the earlier post about "schadenfreude" - something along the lines that "it is clearly not a Jewish value to delight in another's misfortune, and so any call for such delight is anathema to Torah values" would lead by example to all those who look up to you. You can do this even while working out the issues in your own private, personal way. The opportunity to promote the value of Shalom is knocking.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Reb Natan,

    Should we take your not responding to "Concerned..." as a statement on your part?

    ReplyDelete
  49. Hey, did anyone (besides me) notice that with Rabbi Slifkin's comment of "good grief" he *still* has not repudiated the sentiment of schadenfreude, even while "working though the issues" for himself? Come on, why can't you just say unambiguously that it's wrong - not at all a Torah outlook?!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Yoni,

    I noticed it too, but so what? Give the guy a break! He is obviously struggling between his own feelings and the issurim of Lo Tisna and possibly Lo Tikom, as well as the pasuk of Binfol oyvecha... I do not mean this lightly - it is a serious struggle, and I am sure that I (and probably you too) struggle with our own feelings and issurai Torah in many areas. So let it be. No one's perfect, and there's no surprise in that.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Yerachmiel Kochav Stern wrote
    "...stay away from daas Torah ...Rabbi Wachtfogel could make shmatah out of you in learning... Clean your mouth with bleach ...In the Torah world you are irevelant... Your hatred toward Jews ... you are so blind to see it."


    Actually R Slifkin post about R Watchfogel was not derogatory. I am not sure I can say same about your comment mister Stern.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Yerachmiel Kochav Stern wrote
    "...stay away from daas Torah ...Rabbi Wachtfogel could make shmatah out of you in learning... Clean your mouth with bleach ...In the Torah world you are irevelant... Your hatred toward Jews ... you are so blind to see it."

    When I read these words, a picture forms in my mind of a snarling, rabid, primitive dog (perhaps from the early Miocene period), backed into a corner, baring its teeth, foaming at the mouth, ready to bite anything that moves. Kind of makes me want to get my baseball bat, some Lysol disinfectant spray and call the pound.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I think Fred's Son makes some valid and important points here. I’m also seeing a pattern, where people who have a lot of power to wield and take extreme stances that really hurt the powerless, might indicate the psychological profile of an abuser that abuses in other areas as well. It seems like the way the Charedi community is structured – insular, anti-secular, tremendous deference to an autocratic leadership – that its members constitute, in a sense, the perfect victims for this type of abuse. In some ways, the Charedi community has the hallmarks of a cult. Even the name of R. Tropper’s organization – Eternal Jewish Family – has a cult-like ring to it. I don’t mean to cast aspersions on the Charedi community itself, which I believe is overwhelmingly made up of good and pious Yidden, just noting that the community set up seems particularly vulnerable this type of abuse. It’s interesting that it took an outsider with some seychel and objectivity to bring it to light.

    I think one of the messages here that needs to be transmitted, is that we should teach our children that NO ONE is exempt from having a yetzer hara and making mistakes, and that they should trust their own instincts if someone, even a feared and venerated Charedi Rosh Yeshiva, makes the child/female adult feel uncomfortable. It’s important that this come out, that the Charedi community know about this and understand how it came to be, that the leadership not keep the lid on and the light out. Light is meant to illuminate the hidden, the dark, and this whole episode is a terrible chilul H’. This person’s manifold corruption has hurt an untold numbers of people in numerous ways. IYH’ proper perspective, healing and vigilance against potential future abuses should be the outcome. If the Charedi leadership doesn’t take advantage of this opportunity to do this, future abuses will surely be upon their heads.

    I very much appreciate and am comforted by Fred’s Son’s posts.

    ReplyDelete
  54. The hypocrisy here is that the Yated type publications wer e atatcking righteous rabbis suchs as rav Druckman, and mocking their credentials and conversions. All this was doen on the claim of "daas Torah",a nd that only the hareidm are true "Yorei shomoyim". What it ends up, is that this repugnant "talmid hochom" is trading conversion certificates (of thehighest halachic standard) for s-xual services for himself and his buddies.
    So much for the high moral standards of Haredim.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Commenting on Eddie's broadbrushing last sentence:

    Good grief!

    ReplyDelete

Comments for this blog are moderated. Please see this post about the comments policy for details. ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE POSTED - please use either your real name or a pseudonym.